SGML: Observations on Seattle Conference

SGML: Observations on Seattle Conference


Subject: Observations on Seattle Conference
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 10:04:07 -0500
From: Len Bullard <cbullard@HiWAAY.net>
Newsgroup: comp.text.sgml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Observations on Seattle Conference, by Len Bullard] Because there was a long thread attempting to discover if the recent Technical Corrigendum and alignment of the SGML standards could help sew the Web back together, I am sharing some of my observations from the recent GCA conference in Seattle where some of the issues were discussed. GoodNews: The alignment is real not cosmetic. After a year of intense work, there is an adequate basis for using DSSSL, HyTime and SGML in application suites. To understand how this works, one must understand the grove and grove plan concepts. What we need now from the working groups is the assurance that we will not see big changes soon. Unless the standard is very stable, no one should be encouraged to build products for it. The answer to whether this can be used to sew the web together depends on the efforts of the SGML On The Web working group sponsored by the W3C. My intuition from seeing the presentations at the conference is that this is possible. The work on groves is significant. BadNews: It is apparent from the reactions of those who attended the conference that only a tiny fraction of our community understands the technical corrigendum. Mail I have received since the conference states the opinion that the presenters may have done damage by not being able to clearly and simply present the TC results. This is unfortunate. The best explanation I have for this is that the material is too new and the number of participants in the design work too small to provide anything other than the "inside rant" on these subjects. There is also the issue of working with unfunded efforts, but that excuse does not play well to a worldwide community used to free information and free code. Unless a larger group understands the technical implications of the concepts and can discuss them, this party is over. Good News: The DSSSL engine shown at the conference worked stunningly well. For those able to master the intricacies of DSSSL stylesheets, we finally have a robust way to encode and share rendering information among SGML applications. Unless one has been an active SGML practicioner for the last decade, one may not appreciate the profound implications of this. More good news is that this is well designed with regards to the use of local libraries of DSSSL code that enable one to use very small packets of information to transfer the stylesheet initialization data. Bad News: Just as the SGML community has aligned itself, the W3C working group may drive a wedge back into the body by trying to be the sole arbiter of how these are applied to SGML On The Web. I refer to the discussion of whether advanced hyperlinking should be supported in DSSSL or HyTime. We must also be sure that any simplification efforts do not result in a different metalanguage. This is a stated goal of that effort, so I don't have many concerns about it. Good News: The SGML community can lend assistance with the architecture to show which roles each should play as envisaged by the designers of the standards. Without this assistance, things will be considerably slower and there will be a very noisy fight. The real good news is that the cooperation sought by many of us among the various groups chartered to decide these things is happening. We must sustain this. If we avoid company politics and the usual "more meta than thou" problems, we can. Jon Bosak and Dan Connoly are demonstrating strong leadership qualities in this effort. Neutral News: Efforts to get standards for scripting for SGML/HyTime applications are moving again. The MID demonstration showed that is was possible to implement an SGML scripting application over a HyTime engine using SGML syntax. The MID can be a good sandbox for those interested in this topic. A MID list sponsored by DISA has been created. The MID documents are available as is the prototype created for the US Navy. Source code is available on request. IMO: A discussion of groves, grove plans and how they unite the standards should begin on CTS. This list remains the single thread that unites the SGML community. While it is an unmoderated newsgroup, it can still be the best medium for informing the community of how this recent work can be applied to our applications. If we do not use it, we have only ourselves to fault. We must learn to focus our threads around these issues and avoid thread drift. This is difficult, but doable. The time of doing all of our work in small groups cut off from the main body of our members is over. It is said that one cannot do hard technical work in large public groups. This is wrong. It is just nerve wracking and noisy, but ultimately, it is the way to assure that as a standard emerges, there are running applications that use it. If anyone has questions about the conference, I will answer those that I can. Please ask these on CTS. Len Bullard