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From: Kimmo Elovainio <kelo@bluecube.gra.vtt.fi>
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To: sgml@mailbase.ac.uk
Subject: MicroSoft Word (RTF)
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Text
Does anyone know how Microsoft Corp. has made attention to ISO 8879
standard? Are they going to support f.ex. conversions from SGML to
RTF in their products? I have heard that there exists tools
(Exoterica's parsers) which converts SGML coded documents to RTF and
backwards.
Kimmo Elovainio
VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland
email: kelo@gra.vtt.fi
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From: MGPopham@exua.exeter.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 15:43:37 BST
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Subject: Re: MicroSoft Word (RTF)
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Kimmo Elovainio <kelo@fi.vtt.gra.bluecube> writes:
> Does anyone know how Microsoft Corp. has made attention to ISO 8879
> standard? Are they going to support f.ex. conversions from SGML to
> RTF in their products? I have heard that there exists tools
> (Exoterica's parsers) which converts SGML coded documents to RTF and
> backwards.
Being fortunate enough to get sent to some of the big SGML-related
conferences, I often hear opinions, rumours, and unsubstantiated
gossip on this general topic. I find it very hard to distinguish
the facts from the fiction (and any additional information is welcome),
but here goes........
* Exoterica have done some major SGML-related work with MicroSoft.
Their conference party-piece is to show how the "Cinemania" CD-ROM is
derived from a database of SGML-tagged texts, the texts themselves
being a number of standard/classic works on the film industry and
movies, which have been marked up according to an SGML DTD. Of course
you don't get to see any of this source text when you buy the CD-ROM
-- otherwise unscrupulous people might be busy extracting entire texts
from the database and flogging them off separately!
* I've heard it said that Microsoft are heavy internal users of SGML,
and even that they originally create their help text using an SGML-based
system, then convert it for import into their released software. I don't
recall ever hearing someone from Microsoft stand up and confirm or
deny this.
* > converts SGML coded documents to RTF and backwards.
It depends what you mean by this. To do something useful, the conversion
process would have to know something about the DTD used to create the
"SGML coded documents". It may be possible to have `black-box' convertors
that know about common DTDs like those associated with CALS, AAP, ATA100,
J2008 etc -- which could therefore take in a document which conformed to
one of those DTDs and convert it into an RTF file with some nice
formatting. It would be alot more effort to develop and supply a generic
conversion tool, which could take in an arbitrary user-supplied DTD, and
support the creation of a set of rules to convert a file written according
to that DTD into something with user-defined RTF codes. There are some
stand-alone tools to do this sort of thing (eg. SGML Hammer, OmniMark,
TagWrite etc.) -- and it is important to remember that it is very much
easier to go from SGML marked up documents (where the structural markup
is explicit, and you know it conforms to a particular DTD),*into* something
like RTF, than it is to convert the other way. To the best of my (limited)
knowledge of RTF, it is concerned primarily with formatting text and has
no concept of document structure cf. SGML.
* And now the juicy bit! I have appended the text of a memo from Microsoft
titled "An update on SGML/CALS and Word for Windows" dated 22 July 1993.
It says in the opening paragraph that "This information can be released
to any customers requiring SGML/CALS support details" so here it is! I
guess we shouldn't take it (necessarily) as gospel, but it makes
interesting reading. (P.s. I hope Microsoft don't try to sue me for
giving them some free publicity!)
Michael Popham
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SGML Project - C.D.O Email:M.G.Popham@exeter.ac.uk
Computer Unit - Laver Building Phone:+44-(0)392-263946
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: *********
To: MSLTD Customer Response Center; MSLTD Marketing; MS LTD Sales
Subject: An update on SGML/CALS and Word for Windows
Date: 22 July 1993
Below is an update on how Word for Windows, in the future, will support
SMGL(sic)//CALS (Word 6.0 for Windows *might* make it or it will ship
ship (sic) sometime later). This information can be released to any
customers requiring SGML/CALS support details.
Regards
*****************
____________________________________________________
BACKGROUND:
Standard Generalized Markup Language (SGML) is an international standard
for document description developed in the 1970's and 80's by an
international committee that was made up primarily of publishers. The
purpose of the standard was to define a set of rules for describing the
logical structure of any text document, this description is independent
of the typesetting or formatting codes used to format the document for
display.
DESCRIPTION:
SGML is a method for identifying the logical structure of documents. The
DTD (Document Type Definition) defines a hierarchical set of tags to be
used in marking content, the requirements for the tags and their
attributes. Logical units within a document, like chapters, list items,
cross references, bibliographic entries, etc. are delineated using tags
and attributes defined in the DTD. DTDs are created by government
agencies, businesses, and industry committees to describe their documents
and there is no limit to the possible number of DTDs.
CALS:
The CALS (Computer-Aided Acquisition Logistics Support) Initiative is a
program of the US DoD and it's vendors that includes the use of SGML to
maintain documentation, contracts, and contract proposals. CALS governs
every detail of a vendor's interaction with the DoD. It is important to
note that applications by definition are not CALS compliant. Rather,
vendors are CALS compliant, and they can produce CALS compliant documents
using applications.
SGML/CALS & WORD
Our vision of SGML is to broaden the accessibility of this technology
without requiring users to understand the technology. The largest problem
currently facing SGML usage today is increased cost due to decreased
productivity. The current set of SGML editing tools are typically not
very user friendly and are designed almost exclusively for the UNIX
environment.
Our approach contrasts rather starkly with the current reality, and we
think we will revolutionize the world of SGML by bringing a product to
market that allows authors to work in a familiar and comfortable editing
environment (Word) while still enjoying linkage with SGML.
Our forthcoming SGML solution has two parts, a converter (end-user focused)
and a separate mapping application (MIS focused). To author an SGML
document the end users will simply construct their documents in Word as
they normally would, except the (sic) must use styles for ALL formatting.
To create SGML, they would save the file as SGML just as they would export
a WordPerfect or any other foreign file format. They will then be asked to
"Choose a mapping file." This is a file that would be supplied to them by
an MIS person. The end user need know nothing whatsoever about SGML
throughout the entire process.
To create the mapping file, an SGML knowledgeable individual (MIS) would use
a separate mapping application which we provide. The mapping application
allows this person to build specific mappings between Word templates
(i.e. styles) and the structures in the SGML DTD. Where standard DTDs
do exist (i.e. CALS, Air Transport Association (ATA), American Association
of Publishers (AAP)), we will ship pre-assembled mapping files and templates.
For customers who have built their own DTDs, they will need to use the
mapping application to build corresponding templates and mapping files.
This would all be undertaken by an MIS person who is SGML knowledgeable.
These conversion tools will be available NO SOONER than the next major
release of Word. We hope to have it available within six to nine months
of that release.